Monster Cowboys In Space!
by jamesenge on Oct.15, 2009, under James Enge and Matthew Sturges
Schoenherr, cover for Ace edition of Herbert's "Dune"
Matt, I liked your piece on Dune and avoiding labels. When I first read the book I hadn’t formed a definite impression of what sf was yet, so Dune became part of my definition. It said “science fiction” right on the cover, but on the back was a quote from Arthur C. Clarke comparing it to Lord of the Rings. The label could not be wrong, but could Arthur C. Clarke be wrong? So I put it somewhere near Asimov’s Foundation Trilogy and Tolkien’s books.
I think that’s how genre works–it’s an intuitive sorting 
If Book G involves the murder of a futuristic cowboy on a spaceship, some people will put it on the first stack, some on the second, some the third (depending on which feature they think is most significant), and others just run from the room weeping and go into another line of work. It’s a judgement call, and (by definition, I think) those aren’t rule-governed.
Getting stuck on genre-definitions, anyway, is definitely a mistake. I can tell, because I’m about to make it.
_____
A while ago, when the world was younger and electrons were cheaper and more plentiful, I was wasting them profusely in one of those dumb internet arguments that one has until one learns that one doesn’t have to. In the course of it, I finally (after years of trying) finally defined the relationship of sf to fantasy to my own satisfaction.
“Science fiction is just a form of fantasy with stricter (but slightly inconsistent) rules. Fantasy fiction takes place in a world which does not exist, operating on principles chosen by the author; science fiction takes place in a world which doesn’t exist but might, operating on the principles of science as we understand it (with some cheating allowed in the form of time travel, FTL drives, Amazing Mental Powers etc.).”
I think this really works to account for the relationship of the two fields, although it does drive some people crazy, especially if they have somehow confused genre with gender, as happens in some sad cases.
However one stacks the books, these categories can be a convenience for the reader. That’s why they exist. If she’s in the mood for a cowboy story, she goes for the stack of cowboy books; if he’s in the mood for a monster, he goes for the eldritch creeping horror books.
But I think that it’s a storyteller’s right (or even obligation) to mix across perceived categories–to write “Wyatt Earp Vs. Godzilla” if they feel like it. For one thing, sometimes you just want to see Wyatt Earp draw down on Godzilla, preferably during the Battle of Stalingrad. It doesn’t have to be explained; it’s a natural human instinct. For another thing, everybody needs their bookstacks knocked over occasionally–to reassess what is really similar to what, to become less sure in their preconceptions.
I’m almost sure about that. 90%, maybe.
Related posts:
- Mainstream Space Squids Over at SF Signal, there’s a “Mind Meld” discussion about the perennial bugaboo of “mainstream approval” for literary science fiction and fantasy. Does literary genre fiction have the respect of the mainstream? Does it need such respect? The predominant response seems to be “no.” And whenever this topic comes up,...
- Influence and Labels Thinking back over influences got me thinking about how the things we like don't just influence our style; they also influence how we define what it is that we do and what its place in the overall culture is. I don't think there's been any greater influence on my writing...
- Mix and Mash Hey Matt: I know what you mean about mash-ups, but I guess I’d draw a distinction between something like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies (and similar projects, including unfortunately “Wyatt Earp Vs. Godzilla”) and genre-mixing in general. Mash-ups are gags that can quickly wear out their welcome, but genre-mixing is...
- Zombie Ninjas on the Moon? This talk about genres reminds me of a current persistent trend in genre fiction of which I am growing painfully weary. It’s certain to irritate some of my writers friends when I bring it up, so I hope some of them will jump up attempt to tell me how wrong...
- Heinlein’s Lesson Plan? Yes, Robert Heinlein’s body of work, when taken as a whole, was most certainly didactic, in the very strict definition of “intending to instruct.” But I’m not at all certain he was intending to teach his readership what you might think. He wrote often about the man (or woman) sufficient...
October 15th, 2009 on 4:55 am
Hi James, Matt
I’m always fascinated by the SF/F debate, mainly because I’m attempting to write ‘Science Fantasy’ myself (mainly having dabbled in SF and Fantasy seperately and found I missed the other one too much..hehe) and we can always learn more about the genre.
Personally though, I think there’s actually as much of a style distinction between the two as there is a simple content divide (though I’d loooove to see bookshops try and implement THAT!). Sci-fi tends to have a very stark, serious overtone, leant to it I’m sure by the vast figures and ideas involved and the often dystopic consequences of galactic colonisation. Even the space operas (even something as wonderful as Hamilton’s Night’s Dawn Trilogy) have that sense that everything is just a quiet hum against a much vaster silence.
Fantasy, on the other hand, seems to never shut up. Even something, morose and harsh (something like Robin Hobb’s Farseer trilogy - which I adore) seems to carry a white noise, like the constant creak of leather armour, the scuff and snuffle of horses, and other bad analogies. It’s like the worlds are just either a science to be penetrated, or fantastical and to be awed.
There’s other things - the plodding fireside manner of Fantasy compared to the sometimes chaotic and aloof voice of sci-fi, for example - but I think the stylised divisions of SF and Fant arn’t challenged enough in an attempt to cross genres. Perhaps this is what makes Star Wars so brilliant, take The Force out of the story and it’s still an honest to god Fantasy story, just set in space. Dune, though I couldn’t get on with them (the prescience to be precise), had a style that honestly could sit in both camps.
I’d like to get your guys thoughts on why the tropes and traps of these genres arn’t discarded more often (why more prophesy? Why god, why???) and why such potential influences such as Manga, Star Wars, Final Fantasy, haven’t produced the flood of Science Fantasy novels that something like Lord of The Rings and Star Trek managed to do?
Or am I just reading the wrong novels??…hehe
October 15th, 2009 on 10:45 am
Speaking of Stanlingrad.
2000AD’s Fiends Of the Eastern Front! Vampire Nazis! (in comics and novels.)
October 15th, 2009 on 1:48 pm
I love seeing this concept of stacking books being explored. My frustration/ fascination with categorization of the fiction I like to read led me to a delightful solution. Multidimensional stacks! And I figured, that’s pretty much what people are creating when they label things with a whole bunch of tags.
Anyway, after some number crunching I have a pretty decent prototype. Check out the western TagShadow, as it’s vaguely applicable to the cowboys in space example and for an elaboration of my “multidimensional shelves” concept, you can check out this post
January 3rd, 2010 on 1:35 pm
Hi, I just started reading your blog - thanks for the good work. Just wanted to let you know that it’s not displaying correctly on the BlackBerry Browser (I have a Bold). Either way, I’m now on the RSS feed on my home PC, so thanks again!
January 4th, 2010 on 3:03 pm
Jack, welcome to Babel Clash. Thanks for reading. I’ll work on getting the site repaired for the Blackberry browser. Thanks for the heads-up.
Morgan
May 1st, 2011 on 6:46 pm
Good Day, I replied approx. a year ago stating that I was not able to view your postings correctly. I am not sure if you fixed your website but I can now see it properly, awesome. I’m using a Black Berry Curve.
October 7th, 2011 on 6:32 am
You made some first rate points there. I appeared on the web for the issue and found most people will go together with with your website.
November 22nd, 2011 on 3:30 pm
I adore it when folks come together and share opinions, great weblog, keep it up.
December 4th, 2011 on 6:43 pm
Respect to post author, some amazing information .