Futuristic UF?
by annaguirre on Sep.30, 2009, under Ann Aguirre and Ilona Andrews
People who don’t usually read SF have told me they read and enjoy my Jax series. They’ve also said they consider Jax to be a sub-genre they’d dub Futuristic Urban Fantasy, rather than romantic science fiction, like it says on the contract. That’s because Jax’s voice is much more in line with urban fantasy than anything I’ve ever read in SF.
I find this comparison intriguing and here’s why. Yesterday, we were talking about trends in urban fantasy, along with demons, werewolves, vampires and fairies, and now I’m wondering — can urban fantasy be futuristic? If so, does it have to be set on earth to be urban fantasy? Where is the line drawn?
Can you think of any examples (besides Jax) where the setting is futuristic? I’m looking for specific examples, like title and author. My example would be the Dead World (RED, SCARLET, CRIMSON) books by Jordan Summers. I’d call those futuristic urban fantasy. I’m curious what your criteria is and where the genre shifts. If you don’t think a futuristic could also be urban fantasy, explain why not.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:00 am
Hmmm…I don’t think I can think of any off the top of my head, but I see no reason why it can’t be futuristic urban fantasy. And I would read the heck out of it, so I’ll be back to see who comes up with what!
September 30th, 2009 on 11:07 am
What about the earth question, Bree? Jordan’s books do take place in a kind of post-apocalyptic earth, so there’s no space travel involved.
Do you think space travel or moving away from earth is just what jumps a book out of futuristic UF and into the realm of SF? Because my Jax books definitely say SF on the spine, despite the voice.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:08 am
I’ll admit I’m not a huge sci fi buff, I’ve actually only read a handful of books from that genre. That being said I can’t give you any examples of urban fantasy. But I really don’t see why the story being set in the future would hinder it from that catagory. The way I see it as long as the character’s voice is urban, the storyline fantasy it works be it on Earth or some other planet.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:11 am
That’s a really interesting take, Alyss. I would love to see someone sell an urban fantasy that takes place on a different world.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:12 am
Scott Westerfeld’s Uglies series comes to mind immediately! Even though they’re YA, I think they could/would definitely fall in line as futuristic urban fantasy. Same for Robin Wasserman’s series. I also think you see more genre-blending in YA than you do … well…most other genres LOL
September 30th, 2009 on 11:16 am
I’ve noticed that myself, Amie, regarding the blending in YA. Lots of elements. The one I just wrote, God, I don’t even know what genre it’d be, if it wasn’t YA. Lucky it is!
You said on Twitter, you have a futuristic UF yourself. Can you tell us a little about it? Nothing you’re uncomfortable revealing. Just the gist?
September 30th, 2009 on 11:18 am
PS since you said tell you about it, here goes LOL - I have what I consider a futuristic manuscript (that’s based on an alternative history), but what my agent calls UF. As a writer, you know we can’t get too hung up on genres but I personally would LOVE to see FUF (heeh!) be the next big thing–I cut my high school reading teeth on McCaffrey (anyone remember “The Ship Who…” series? God I loved those books–and Terry Brooks *sigh*).
Funny enough every UF I try to write has sci-fi’ish undertones!
September 30th, 2009 on 11:20 am
It seems like a number of publishers would be interested in that, Amie. There’s always a progression. Like, where can the genre go from here? I am thinking futuristic UF is the natural evolution, myself.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:21 am
>>Just the gist?
Hero is a shapeshifter and a slave who fakes his death and helps to overthrow the government–there’s a lot more to it than that but you get the idea
. He also gets the girl. It’s been a hard sell because it’s mostly from his POV (this summer I actually rewrote it in 3rd person because 1st was obviously not working) and it’s kind of considered a “boy” book though it’s NOT a boy book LOL
It’s not YA but like some YA’s it’s hard to classify. I LOVE that story…LOVE IT. *sigh*
September 30th, 2009 on 11:22 am
How old is the protagonist? You might be able to slide it toward YA if he’s young.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:30 am
Maybe Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn series as off-Earth, futuristic urban fantasy? It seems to have the right feel.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:38 am
Riva, that really makes me want to read it. I’ve gotten away from epic fantasy in recent years, but the comparison you just made makes me add the books to my TBR list!
September 30th, 2009 on 11:40 am
@Amie
Sounds interesting (and I’m with Ann on this one)–can you slide it towards YA? The genre b(l)ending going on there is amazing and might give you what you need to open the door. 1st person’s hot in YA (but there are always readers who just don’t like it). [And I also recall The Ship Who Sang, etc. ;-)]
@Ann
I think there’s potential for futuristic urban fantasy–I’d guess most folks would expect it to be earth-based. Wasn’t the traditional sci-fi definition (gosh, I’ve heard this debated so often) that the fictional scientific mechanism involved had to be a primary force in the world and characters’ lives? Almost like a character itself instead of the setting (if that makes sense).
I personally tend to think sci-fi incorporates super high tech (and I like the alien aspect and additional planets and species). A friend recently said that it’s speculated sci-fi is dying b/c we aren’t able to imagine as far ahead as we used to w/technology–technology catches up too quickly to our imagination. Maybe FUF
is the natural evolution.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:44 am
Wow! “A friend recently said that it’s speculated sci-fi is dying b/c we aren’t able to imagine as far ahead as we used to w/technology–technology catches up too quickly to our imagination.”
This is a GREAT quote, and I think it’s probably true, at least to some degree. I mean, we have the flip cell phones because someone who watched Star Trek wanted to invent a for-real communicator.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:47 am
Hmmm. This is a tricksy one. I’m more inclined to want to keep urban fantasy and scifi/romantic science fiction separate and as they are. I think this is because I look at urban fantasy and I know it likely will take place in an urban city environment and involve vampires, witches, magic, etc. I go to that genre because at the moment that is the kind of book I want.
I go to scifi or romantic science fiction because I want the atmosphere that is implies with those terms at that particular moment. I want space, or space stations or cool, different planets - maybe all in the same book.
I see the term futuristic urban fantasy and I’m a little stumped. Is the voice of the main character enough to embody a genre label? I can see what you’re saying; Jax (and I agree on the voice of the Red series by Summers) does have a kind of urban fantasy “voice”, but I suppose I just attribute much more to a genre label than the character’s, their voices and characteristics. There’s a whole lot more to consider.
On the other hand, there’s nothing to say new genres and subgenres cannot evolve out of current ones. What I think one has to be careful of is them all sounding the same. I mean, don’t we use/need/want them at some point because they help differentiate?
September 30th, 2009 on 11:52 am
That’s an excellent argument against futuristic SF. We certainly don’t want to wind up with homogenized genres, so that it’s all mixed up like the steak smoothies they serve to old people in nursing homes. Nobody wants that. *g*
I tend to think that the cut off actually -is- Earth. If space travel is involved, then it defaults to science fiction. I do think that there can be such an animal as futuristic UF, though, as long as the story still takes place on our world. For me, Jordan’s books meet that criteria. Mine don’t, which is why I think, despite voice, that Ace was right to call them romantic science fiction.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:56 am
To make it a little more clear (hah!), would the term urban science fiction work? Instead of trying to put science fiction w/urban fantasy-like voices *in* urban fantasy alongside the witches, magic, etc? (Am I being too anal? *cringe*)
September 30th, 2009 on 11:58 am
OMG, steak smoothie. Laughing here. And kinda holding hand over mouth at same time and not because of the laughter.
September 30th, 2009 on 12:02 pm
I think it’s an important distinction, K. And I think urban SF is a good label because it actually helps the reader. It warns them that the voice is more commensurate with UF than typical SF. I suspect it also carries the implicit statement that “This fiction is more character-driven”, which can only help the readers who want the “idea” books and the heavy technology.
Oh, and on the steak smoothie? As a kid, I worked as a candy striper in a nursing home. I so wasn’t kidding about the steak smoothie. We had to feed them a green smoothie (veggies, I assume), a brown smoothie (the meat), and then some other random color, usually yellow or orange. It was one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever done — and I’ve raised small children.
September 30th, 2009 on 12:04 pm
A big resounding HELL YEAH to futuristic UF. My two favorite things rolled into one.
September 30th, 2009 on 12:08 pm
This is a list that comes under the science fiction genre.
Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic science fiction
Biopunk - uses elements from the hard-boiled detective novel, film noir, Japanese anime, and post-modernist prose to describe the nihilistic, underground side of the biotech society
Dying Earth science fiction
Military science fiction
Mundane SF
Steampunk - denotes works set in (or strongly inspired by) an era when steam power was still widely used — usually the 19th century, and often set in Victorian England
Time travel
Space colonization
Space opera - emphasizes romantic adventure, exotic settings, and larger-than-life characters
Spy-fi
I would place Jax series under Space Opera and as a scifi junkie I can actually list dozens of books that would fall into this category.
Dune-Frank Herbert, now carried on by Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson
E.E. Smith’s Lensmen, C. J. Cherryh Foreigner novels,Stephen Baxter Manifold Trilogy, Peter F. Hamilton The Void Trilogy, Justina Robson Quantum Gravity Books
I could go on and on how many great books are in the space opera genre. Of course this is one of Hollywoods favorite playgrounds since Star Wars came out in 1977.
September 30th, 2009 on 12:14 pm
So you don’t think voice contributes to genre, Rocky? It’s all setting?
September 30th, 2009 on 12:15 pm
KMont said “Is the voice of the main character enough to embody a genre label?” And I think she has a point. I mean, how are we defining the genre? What exactly makes something Urban Fantasy or something else Romantic Sci-fi?
I don’t know that I want a blending of genres. I complain enough about the inability of bookstores to separate fantasy from sci-fi on shelves as it is! (Yes, I know it’s not really their fault, but it’s a peeve. ;))
As far as having a fantasy set on a different planet, well, could one not theorize that any fantasy novel which uses a created world is set on another planet? It seems a slippery slope to go that route. I have had novel ideas that incorporate both high tech progress (as in the creation of tech that does not yet exist) as well as elements that are clearly fantasy. Does this make it Futuristic Urban Fantasy? I still see it as sci-fi. That super high tech element seems to trump the fantasy elements I was incorporating.
While I don’t like the idea of blending the two genres, I can also see how it could happen at some point. Think of the entire Final Fantasy series (video games). They fight with swords (occasionally guns) and have airships or submarines for travel. There is always a magic system. Is this FUF? (And on this one, I really don’t have a clue where to put it.) It might not be a book, but each game has a well developed (for a game) plot and tells its own story.
In essence, to combine the two (sci fi and fantasy) would make a mess of things in my mind. However, times do change. The craft evolves and new generations demand new spins and new styles from storylines.
But again, I must agree with KMont here. We need these genre labels because they differentiate things in our minds. Else, why would labels exist at all?
September 30th, 2009 on 12:24 pm
Well, now I’m super-intrigued too. I’m working on a story which I’m calling Science Fiction Romance, but smacks more of what you’re talking about here.
If anyone has a book like this to send me for review on Enduring Romance, just pop over and email me. Besides the traditional moitivations for book reviews, this is how I learn about writing.
kimberannebulaATyahooDOTcom
September 30th, 2009 on 12:31 pm
Sounds interesting (and I’m with Ann on this one)–can you slide it towards YA? The genre b(l)ending going on there is amazing
Shannon thanks!! I’m not sure YA is do-able with this one but I have another WIP….same sorta thing that could easily be YA and I’m playing with the idea of taking it in that direction. Like I said most of my UF stuff leans toward sci-fi for some reason (though not hard sci-fi).
September 30th, 2009 on 12:31 pm
Well, if we’re talking about evolution: SF started as a means of social commentary, with aliens plugged into various racial roles, but speaking for myself, I don’t have any agenda with my Jax books. They’re purely for entertainment. If people find messages and themes, then clearly I buried them for the really smart readers to find. (Not really) Likewise, UF in the early days of Charles de Lint and Emma Bull used to be quite different.
September 30th, 2009 on 12:37 pm
I suspect it also carries the implicit statement that “This fiction is more character-driven”
I think this is a great point and the character-driven(ness) of most UF is definitely not the same as Sci-fi (as *I* remember it - though again, McCaffrey comes to mind and I seem to remember great characterization. It wasn’t a genre I read widely though.).
I would also agree w/Rocky that I tend to think of setting as the defining factor for genre, not voice (but as a reader, i’m ALL about a great writing voice).
That said, I do wonder, do romance writers define genre differently than non-romance writers? Or differently than writers who don’t come at UF or Sci-Fi from a romance background?
September 30th, 2009 on 12:42 pm
The fight between the scifi and fantasy communties boils down to most Science Fiction is based on something that scientifically could happen…space travel for example. While fantasy, can be said we won’t be seeing rush of dragons, wizards, werewolves or vampires anytime soon.
To your question Ann, I think great books combine both. Planet of Arrakis wouldn’t be the same without the character of Paul Atreides.
September 30th, 2009 on 12:45 pm
The term futuristic, however, comes from the romance genre and it’s apart from SF because people don’t concern themselves so much with the possibility of the technology. Which is why the lines are blurry.
September 30th, 2009 on 1:17 pm
When I read the Jax series, I was reminded books by another author that I love - Linnea Sinclair. I believe her books are classified as sci-fi romance or romantic space opera…but I think futuristic urban fantasy would work, too. Whatever it’s called - count me in to purchase and read!
September 30th, 2009 on 2:32 pm
I’d like to point out Ilona Andrews’ Kate Daniels series which isn’t off planet, but *is* post-apocalyptic-ish which is considered a SF trait. Also there’s Bettie Sharpe’s Like a Thief in the Night, which is a future set fairytale almost. (I highly recommend both.)
Ramsey Campbell was asked to “host” an anthology I was in. My story in the antho was a precursor to the book I’m trying to sell which is, in ways, a post-apocalyptic urban fantasy. Campbell called it “dark science fantasy” because there is some very real science used in the world setting and used by the characters (who are forensic investigators) but the science build the world, and isn’t the focus of it like in SF. Science fantasy used to be a lot more common and has since faded in favor of more concrete genre boundaries.
Someone else brought up what difference POV and character focus make, and it’s so true. SF largely focuses on a large scale view. The character are important mainly because of how the affect the world around them. The whole world is important in SF.
But in UF the focus is hypered down to one character or small group of characters. Even when they perform actions that might change (protect or endanger) the whole world (like Magic Burns by Ilona Andrews) the focus isn’t save the world, it’s save these people.
So I guess you could say that my UF world, and Andrews and Sharpe’s are urban science fantasy rather than just urban fantasy.
I think you can find the hyper focus of UF in SF if you know where to look. Star Wars, Serenity and even Star Trek (TNG and Voyager especially) all strongly focus on a certain group of characters who affect the world and face major problems, but still the reader/viewer is invested in these characters more than the world scope.
In fact, from my experience the UF/SF blurring tends to make the book/movie/etc more popular, perhaps because people relate to it better.
September 30th, 2009 on 11:41 pm
Wow, you guys made some great points!
October 1st, 2009 on 12:42 pm
I have no background in the SF or Fantasy genres; I only know a little about them from online discussions. So my opinion is strictly from a labeling perspective - what I expect to get when I pick up a book with a certain label.
With Urban Fantasy, I expect a fantasy in an urban/modern setting. I expect mythical creatures and probably some degree of magic. Futuristic wouldn’t bother me, possibly because I’d interpret it as ultra-modern. Historical would bother me because that’s regular Fantasy. UF on another world would work for me as long as it still deals with magic and mythical creatures, not alien races. Most UF is alternate reality to some extent anyway so alternate world could work. I think “voice” is important but is third in favor of science v. mysticism (1) and setting (2).
So far, I’ve only read the first Jax book, and it wasn’t urban fantasy at all. Unless myth and magic come into play in the subsequent books, it’s absolutely SF, IMO. I think the Space Opera subgenre of SF is a much more appropriate place for the series. Everything is science based (I think?) but there’s a strong character focus (Space Opera).
I like the genre labels as they are. They can expand and evolve but I want their cores to stay the same so I know what I’m getting. Scientific v. Mystical.
October 3rd, 2009 on 2:35 am
I think J.D. Robb’s book kind of fit into the category a bit. And, though I only read the first book, the Acorna series came to mind when I was reading the post and comments, as did Piers Anthony’s Virtual Mode (though it’s actually in the past now, it seemed futuristic in parts to me).
I also remember seeing Katherine Allred’s name pop-up somewhere…maybe Borders True Romance section when they discussed the sci-fi sub-genre. I believe Ann Aguirre was mentioned a time or two as a good recommendation (^^).
February 3rd, 2010 on 7:32 am
Hi,I thought I’d post and let you know that your blogs layout is really messed up on the k-melon browser.Anyhow keep up the good work