The Fantasy Series
by brandonsanderson on Jun.12, 2009, under Brandon Sanderson
I’m in the middle of an experiment. My newest book, Warbreaker, is a stand-alone epic fantasy, much as my first book Elantris was. Obviously, I’m not the only one to release stand-alones in this genre. There’s a grand tradition of it, and some of my personal favorite books are stand-alones. I’m curious to see how readers react to me jumping away from a series and doing another stand-alone, as it’s something I want to do fairly frequently.
And yet, though I don’t let the sales choose what I write or publish, I do let them worry me. Really, releasing this book should be like releasing any other. I’m excited about it, I put my soul into it, and I think it represents some of the best writing I’ve ever done. And yet, at the same time, I know there’s going to be less excitement about it from the readership than there was for the final Mistborn book. Stand alones tend to get reviewed more and better, they tend to make fans happy, and yet they just don’t tend to sell as well. (I don’t know for certain–I won’t see numbers on the release week until next Wednesday.)
Ever since Tolkien had to split Lord of the Rings, there has been a strong tradition of the fantasy epic coming in installments. We fantasy readers like lots of worldbuiling, lots of depth of character, and lots of viewpoints. And yet, at the same time, it seems that we like to complain about the length of the series. We want them to be long–but we don’t want them to be TOO long. The problem is, we all seem to have a different definition of what makes a series “too” long.
If you look at the figures, the Wheel of Time didn’t start hitting #1 on the NYT list until its eighth or ninth book. It took Goodkind longer, with Sword of Truth. I believe the eleventh book was the first to hit #1. Even while people were complaining about these series, they were buying more and more copies of them. Perhaps that’s what was making them complain—they really wanted an ending, and were willing to read until they got to it. They just wished they could get the ending sooner.
Or maybe the ones complaining are just a vocal minority. Still, the genre’s love of the huge series does worry me a little. The length of a story shouldn’t be dependent upon what the market wants, but what the story itself demands. If I write a story that I feel takes one book, I want to (and will) release it as one book. If it takes three, I’ll do three. If it takes ten, I’ll do ten. I hope to have the flexibility to be doing a little from each of those piles during my career.
Yet even as it worries me, there’s a piece of me–that fantasy novel lover who grew up as a teenager reading Eddings, Williams, and Jordan–that pushes me to do something BIG. Something grand in scope, something massive, long, intricate, and…well, epic.
So what are your thoughts? Short series? Stand alone? Big epics? Why do the long series sell so much better when people are vocally claiming they wish there were more stand alones and trilogies out there?
Related posts:
- Types of Series Because of the excellent discussion we had here about the whole series vs. standalones idea, I thought it would be interesting to delve into the types of series out there and talk a little about how I envision each one. This is kind of off the cuff; I’ve never really...
- The Journey in Fantasy I think it’s easy to understand why the concept of the journey is so intriguing in fantasy novels. There are few things which separate our modern world from previous eras more than that of distance and travel. To us, all things are close. The other side of the world is...
- Warbreaker This is the part where I pitch my book, apparently. Only, I’ll admit, I’ve never been that great at this part of the whole process. I once heard a wise man (Robert Jordan) say something along the lines of “Well, I wrote the series as long as I did because...
- Sequels and standalone novels It’s rare for a popular fantasy or sf novel to stand alone. Sequels and series follow, and that’s a good thing. A few writers produce brilliant fantasy or sf stories and choose not to write sequels. So, here’s my question. For what standalone novel do you most wish the writer...
- Thank you, Kim! And our next guest is… Kim, thank you for contributing to Babel Clash. It’s been fun, and you’re welcome to visit anytime. Congratulations on the success of Once Dead, Twice Shy. Our next guest is Brandon Sanderson, author of epic fantasy novels Warbreaker, Elantris and Mistborn. Brandon is also undertaking the incredible challenge of completing...
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June 12th, 2009 on 4:04 pm
I’m a big fan of stand-alone books in SF and fantasy. I have great respect for any author who can tell a good story in one volume. I have nothing against series or trilogies, but I am always more likely to check out a stand-alone because it’s less of a time investment. Plus - the author can always go back to that world or universe and tell another story set in it.
On a somewhat related note — your novel “Elantris” is one of the few stand-alone books that - I think - could have been expanded into more volumes. There’s so much potential material there. I would have loved to see some chapters from Roial’s POV, for example. Or Shuden. It’s very rare for me to read a fantasy book and actually think it was too short, but that was one of them!
June 12th, 2009 on 4:04 pm
Myself, I love the long epic fantasy. There were many parts of Jordan’s story that seemed to drag on, but they were part of the background history and needed to tell the story completely.
I love the fact that there are so many loose threads waving about everywhere, that will most likely never come to anything. It makes the world feel more alive.
One of the things I dislike about movies, and television series is that you can almost always guarantee that if something has an emphasis at all, then it must be important to the story. I miss the useless information provided in the written media(or what seems useless), and how it makes the world have texture that a visual type of media is unable to even come close to providing.
Jordan being the king of foreshadow, I do tend to look closely at even the most mundane items anyway. But, I love authors that aren’t afraid to write the mundane to begin with, and let it add more “character” to their stories.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:09 pm
A quality story is a quality story, whether its split into 10 parts or is one book. I’ll stick around as long as the story is worth it. It’s when they begin to get stretched out simply to make the story longer that will turn me away.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:12 pm
Hi Brandon,
I haven’t read Warbreaker yet, though I bought it the day it came out at Barnes and Nobles. However, I loved the Mistborn series, and felt its length was perfect for the story. At the same time, I felt that Elantris was just as fulfilling of a story and it was told in about a third of the words. Of course, my favorite series, and probably the best selling fantasy this side of Harry Potter is the Wheel of Time, and I think that they are so popular because people fall in love with the characters and want to keep reading about them. Also, I feel that each new book in a series-if it’s good-brings a little bit more popularity and more exposure, so a reader like me will buy it.
For an example, I recently bought Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson, even though there were already eight books out when I bought it. As you know, authors don’t just start out selling novels like hotcakes. It takes time and a lot of exposure for a book to start selling like a Phantom by Goodkind or a Path of Daggers.
Just wait til you the sales of The Gathering Storm!!
June 12th, 2009 on 4:14 pm
I like all of them, personally, it just depends on how they’re done. I do like stand-alones, but if they’re done well, it makes me want more from that world. Elantris is a prime example of this. I loved the book, and the story definitely is complete in a way that most series books can’t match, but I really hope that you write a follow up someday.
Short series are great, but so are long series, it’s just that it takes a certain kind of writer to do a huge, epic series that they write over the course of a decade and still have the whole thing feel cohesive. I think that’s a big part of where the complaints about long series come from. Fans get invested in the world because they’ve spent so much time in it, and they really want to see what happens, but often times later on in a series they feel like they aren’t getting what made them love the series in the first place. So they buy the books, but then complain about them. At least that’s how I felt about the Wheel of Time and Sword of Truth series. David Eddings never really had that problem, but then again, all of his books had pretty much the same tone, no matter what setting they were in. I think George R.R. Martin has come the closest so far to maintaining the good stuff over the scope of a huge epic, but who knows when that will be finished.
In the end, I agree that the length has to fit the story, but I don’t know if there’s really a solution to the sales issue.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:20 pm
You do a wonderful job with both standalones and more “non-standalones” (ie. Warbreaker and Mistborn tril)-
So as many of the comments here will no doubt show, it really depends on the story’s substance. If enough exciting material exists for eight books- then forget standalones, we want all eight books! But I would rather read several great standalones over an average epic series.
I could be wrong, but think you can tell when authors have a good idea of the whole series’ story arc (ie. you, Rowling, etc.)- and which authors … not so much. Whether its writing style, uncertainty over how many volumes the story will take, pressure from the publisher/agent/whatever for more books in the series, etc.
That’s one aspect I love about certain British and Asian television series- their “series” don’t run open-ended like American ones do for 6, 8, 10 years until the dismal end. They order 12-episodes or 20-episodes, and that’s it– and I think it often shows favorably in the sense/ progression of story.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:26 pm
I agree with your sentiments — a one book story should not be dragged out, nor should a longer story be squished up.
I’ve put some thought into why longer series sell better, and I think it is a purely social factor. The more books a series has, the longer it has for a fan-base to grow while the books are still coming out. If the books are still coming out, then buyers/fans feel like they’re on the cutting edge. The book is news. “did you hear about the newest…?” etc. Release parties, signings, online talk are all happening now (and for longer). An analogy: anyone can get into a sports game that is happening now, but only the diehards go back and watch clips or get accounts of their favorite teams.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:30 pm
I personally love the both stand-alones and series. That being said, I really appreciate diversity that you and many other authors like Neil Caiman bring to the table. I sometimes wonder if series like (but certainly not limited to) WoT suffer because the author ends up trying to do too much with the plots. They have a million cool ideas in their heads and they want to get them all on paper. I would much rather the author have the discipline to finish their story and let their other big ideas bleed into new works.
I personally loved the size of the Mistborn trilogy. I didn’t get to the end and say “Man, I wish their were ten more of these”. Elantris was also amazing, and you’ve left the doors open to continue it if you ever wanted to.
In many ways, I liken it to Pixar. Shrek 9 or Ice Age 7 are going to sell really well, but eventually audiences will tire of them. Pixar is pumping out quality film after quality film, all the while creating a huge pool to pull sequels from if they ever decide to.
I say keep doing what your doing. It’s working. But if you decide to do an epic series to soak in gobs of money, I’d keep the books in the 300-400 page range and get them out the door quick. You’ll make way more money and keep the fans much happier.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:36 pm
I prefer stand-alone books over huge epics because not many people can set up a huge epic so that its worth the time and money to obtain 10 books or more.
That being said, if I buy a stand alone book then I would be twice as likely to eventually sale that book then I would a volume of a huge epic. So some of the stand alone sales may be going to resale and therefore not counting on the NYT list.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:36 pm
I tend to like the very long series better than the shorter or stand alone novels. If I really like an author, I’ll still end up reading the shorter series or single book, but then I always end up wanting more! Regarding your comment on sales improving later in the series, I think some people will end up buying after several books have been published.
I haven’t picked up warbreaker yet, but I definitely will, since I loved the mistborn series so much. Also, these blogs are great! Thanks.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:37 pm
I am fan of good stories. Whether they come in tight bundles or large scope-chewing marathons, if the story is good, then I will enjoy it. I am still firmly of the opinion that each separate book in a multi-book series should be a complete story unto itself. Your Mistborn trilogy is a good example of this premise. Each book told its own story as a part of the greater story which is wrapped in book three. As series get longer they tend to get episodic. The last few books in WOT could be labeled “As the Wheel of Time Turns - Year 1127, 3rd Age, November 12 - December 15″ and so on. A complete story in a book gets nixed for installments on the latest from the 10 primary POV characters. So, you’re dead right when you say I want WOT to end. I wanted it to end about three books ago - but I’m willing to go buy the book on release day in the hope that something cool will happen and maybe we’ll see a few of the loose ends get tied up.
So bring on the short stuff and the long stuff, and realize that either way people will say, “Write more!” or “For God’s sake, stop writing!” It’s just the nature of people.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:37 pm
When I like an author, I’ll read pretty much anything they write. I’m just as willing to get wrapped up in a whirlwind stand alone as to get invested in a long-haul epic. I’m a pretty loyal reader.
My only problem is when they’re working on so many different series or projects that some series go way too long without any updates. I don’t mind stand alones in the middle of a series, but when I’m waiting for installments in three different series from the same author and get handed a collection of short stories…I start to get a little antsy.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:45 pm
I think the author who best illustrates my feeling for series vs. single novels is Guy Gavriel Kay. He’s written several standalones, a two-book series, and a trilogy. All were excellent, and I think were just the length needed to tell the story.
That’s really the key. I never got into Dragon Lance, because it wasn’t “a story”. It was a whole bunch of stories set in the same world.
It’s similar to my experience with TV. I’ll enjoy an occasional episode of CSI, but I don’t consider a “series” in the way that I feel I have to see them all. On the other hand, the character arcs and development in Buffy the Vampire Slayer made the world so rich and the investment in the characters so valuable that I had to see them all time and again.
What I think is another important point: a single book in a series needs to tell its own story. In WoT, the first few books were fantastic on their own, with the character arcs making it interesting as a series, and making you want more. As the series progressed, it seemed that the books no longer told their own stories. They were just chapters in a much larger book (and even the chapters in those books started to lose cohesion). It got to the point where I felt I was reading “Rex Morgan, M.D.” (an absolutely terrible comic strip judged by any single newspaper, maybe it was interesting when put together, I’ll never know). The glimpse into the story was too brief, and too unfulfilling to make me care. With WoT, I still bought the books, but by the end I stopped craving them. I stopped following news of them.
Until I heard that he had passed and you were taking up the torch. I read your interviews and I got excited. And then I got Mistborn, and now I’m really excited (100 pages to go in book 3)!
So that’s my take:
1. The characters have to develop a little more in each book. 2. They have to do so by going on a quest that starts and ends in that book.
- Each book should add to the series, and be great on its own. The series should be more than the sum of its parts. If a book doesn’t an entire book’s worth of value to the series, it doesn’t satisfy.
Finally, a note on the paradox of long series not becoming popular until later (and outselling single books). When I like a book, I’ll lend it to a friend. If I’ve got the whole series, I’ll lend them the whole series. They may never buy it. But if a great series is unfinished, we both have finished reading the beginning. We’re both waiting for book 6 (or 8, or 12) at the same time. Neither of us wants to wait once it comes out, so we both buy it. The series leaves questions unanswered and we HAVE TO KNOW! A standalone book, even if you get hooked on an author, doesn’t have the same appeal, because the questions are, as yet, UNASKED.
I guess that’s the third and final thing that a book in a great series has to do:
3. It has to leave some big questions unanswered. Questions the reader really wants answers to.
June 12th, 2009 on 4:55 pm
I like stand-alone novels (set in the same world as another stand-alone or not) and massive multi-volume epics equally well and I think the trilogy is the best compromise of the strengths and weaknesses of the two.
Another option that I wish could be found more often is the collaborative world like the Bolo Universe of Kieth Laumer. I like when an author or world-builder creates a fictional universe and then invites other authors into the sandbox to see what they can do with the setting, letting them create their own characters and plots for short-story anthologies, stand-alone novels, trilogies or epics.
June 12th, 2009 on 5:00 pm
I tend to read authors. So if an author I like works in series, then I like series. Same goes for standalone books.
What I especially like are different books, and books that stand on their own, that all tie together in the same fictional world. Examples I can think of are: The Hobb Farseer and Liveship books. Steven Brust’s Vlad Taltos books and Drageran chronicles together with Brokedown Palace, and now SM Stirlings tying of his Emberverse to the Nantucket series, And going to other genres Balzac’s Human Comedy, and Trollopes Pallisers and Barset novels. On this, I think there’s great potential, if you were interested, in putting other stories into the Elantris universe. That’s something I would like to see. (Mistborn strikes me as less open ended, though I wouldn’t mind seeing some prequels that go back a few thousand years and show the beginnings of the change to the Mistborn world.)
With long series, Jordan and George Martin (and to a lesser extent Goodkind) have made me resolve that I will never again start a series until an author says he’s done with it. I’d rather just read them in one huge chunk.
June 12th, 2009 on 5:02 pm
I enjoy a good stand alone, but I LOVE the long epics!
The first books I ever read were the Chronicles of Narnia. Those are pretty short books, but they felt pretty epic to an 8 year old. A few years later I got back into reading again when I was introduced to the Belgariad (David Eddings). I read every fantasy book I could get my hands on, but I really got into the trilogies, and couldn’t get enough of the long series. The only fantasy books I couldn’t get through were the LotR. Bleh!
A couple years later I came across The Eye of the World right after it came out in paperback.By the time I was 2 or 3 books into the Wheel of Time I was in heaven. I had never read anything with so many plot lines and such a vast world. The plot itself isn’t that complicated, but the sheer number of characters and things going on is a challenge to keep track of. It’s great!
I sometimes think of stand alone books as a good appetizer, or maybe entree. But a good long epic series is like an eight course meal. There’s just so much more substance to it.
Having said that, my favorite book is a stand alone (but not fantasy). I LOVE The Count of Monte Cristo (unabridged). The best book ever!
June 12th, 2009 on 5:11 pm
And on a related note:
Robert Jordan has scared me a little in terms of lengthy epics. I don’t know how willing I’ll be to start another Book 1 of ??. I realize that sometimes people have to buy Book 1 in order for Book 2 to be approved… but the fear of getting left in the lurch for 4+ years for the next novel, or the fear that the author will lose his way.
Mistborn has been great. I can’t wait to see what you’ll do with AMoL. Way of the Kings scares me a little. I hope you’ve got your big story outlined (and big enough that 10 books are needed) as well as each of your 10 little stories. The fact that you’re quite precise in wanting it to be 10 books is hopeful, I hope that it’s because you have 10 stories to tell and not just because 10 is an important number in the series. 16 Mistborn books would have been too many if they all kept their focus on Vin, and people would have wanted more of her if they didn’t. I’ve seen several people say they just skip to Rand sections in WoT. The other characters may be interesting, but they’re reading the series because they’re invested in Rand.
Now I’ve gone and done it. I’ve discovered a fourth thing.
4. It has to be focused (primarily) on a single character (or maybe a small group). If you leave out the focal point for any length of time, readers will get upset.
June 12th, 2009 on 5:38 pm
The story should be as long as it needs to be. If that’s one book, great, and if it’s fourteen… hope the readers have patience. Look at Stephen King’s Dark Tower series, which took 34 years to finish. Plenty of his readers must have passed away before the final volume was released.
I think series sell better because they build a devoted fan base. It’s why fantasy readers have a reputation for not branching out to new authors. This is one of the harder genres to break into as a writer.
June 12th, 2009 on 5:44 pm
If there is a end in sight, and each book has proper closure, I enjoy a long series (though I hate the wait). The main advantage to the series is that the setting and characters are familiar, so there is more action and drama and less explanation in the latter books.
I have read some series, mostly juvenile fiction, where the author just doesn’t stop. The main issue is resolved, but the story doesn’t end. Those are the series that I don’t finish. As much as I loved Harry Potter, I hope they leave good enough alone, unlike the endless Star Wars knockoff series with all it’s inconsistencies.
As far as proper closure, there are books with the comic book ending. A minor detail may be resolved, but they leave so much to be discovered in the sequel, that the reader is frustrated and just abandons all hope of closure. The best example I can think of for this would be Lost, the TV series. There is a fine line between leaving the reader in suspense and leaving the reader in wonder if there is ever an end.
June 12th, 2009 on 5:55 pm
It’s not the length that bothers us, I think. If someone pointed me to a 20-book series that was good, I’d be in love. The problem is the waiting. Look at something like The Wheel of Time or A Song of Fire and Ice. I came into the series well into their runs, and I’m frustrated/anxious waiting for the next installments. The readers make emotional investments into these stories, and the waiting is painful.
I like stand-alone books because there’s no waiting to see what happens next. A book comes out, I read it, and that’s that. But at the same time, I like the extra information that can be put into a series; the exploration of a world.
So you have the right of it. Write what the story demands. Just realize that if you’re going to write a 10-book series, the readers who support you by buying those books are making not just a financial investment, but an emotional one. Making them wait six-years between books for new information on the world is rough. Don’t take on such a task unless you think it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. Also, realize that a 10-year series means at LEAST ten years of your life. That’s a big chunk of time.
(Addendum: Waiting between books isn’t as big a deal if have other information to keep us occupied. Forum posting, for example. Q&A sections. Short stories.)
June 12th, 2009 on 6:12 pm
I have no real preference. I enjoy the ability to get lost in a world, which is something that long series can really let you do in a way that shorter books cannot. However, the important thing to me is that the book is well written. My favorite fantasy author is Guy Gavriel Kay, and he’s only written one trilogy and one duology (is that a word?). The majority of his books, such as Tigana, Song for Arbonne, Lions of Al-Rassan, are stand alone books. And they’re all brilliant. Maybe the fact that he mostly writes stand alone books is why he doesn’t seem to enjoy the popularity of Robert Jordan, GRRM, or Terry Goodkind. But he’s definitely at least a good a writer as any of them.
June 12th, 2009 on 6:43 pm
I’m not terribly worried about the length of a series or if a book is a standalone. If I like the story, I’ll read it. Even if the story isn’t that good, I might still read a long series, if I have a reason to. I read fairly quickly, which can be a blessing and a curse.
The Wheel of Time has taught me to have patience. Waiting is still hard, but I have about 20 other books to read now. (Where will I put these things when I get home?) Warbreaker should be one of my next reads. Hopefully it came and is waiting at home for me. I’m thinking I might knock out 3 books in the next few days, but I have a paper to revise and a whole lot of other stuff to do. Plus Jury Duty on Monday. Makes life interesting.
June 12th, 2009 on 6:48 pm
Also, one potential knock against long series is that the author can often become a bit self-indulgent which affects the quality of later books. This has happened to both Terry Goodkind and Robert Jordan. It’s almost as if they let the success of the earlier books go to their heads, so they stop taking constructive criticism from their editors.
June 12th, 2009 on 6:55 pm
I have a thing for trilogies myself. I find they have more in depth characters which is a big pulling factor for me in any book. The longer series allow more detailed world building which can make it easier to loose youself in the story. However that being said they both mean nothing if the quality of the story and writing isn’t there to back it up. I have read books which had great characters but the story and writing left something to be desired. In fact in some cases I have refused to try other books by the same author because of this fact despite hearing good reveiws about other works.
This is not to say I have a problem with stand alones. I have read my fair share of good stand alones including Elantris and Warbreaker (which I absolutely love by the way). I guess as with any book it all comes down to the quality of the writing and finding the right balance of character development, world building and intersting story. I just personally find that that balance is easier to achieve when the story is a trilogy or longer. I have personally found that authors who can achieve that balance in stand alone fantasy books are few and far between.
June 12th, 2009 on 7:32 pm
I personally, have no problem with long serieses or stand alones. It’s all about the richness and depth of the world and characters, not the length. It should be however long it needs to be to tell the story the author intends. Like many fantacy readers, I get hooked on authors. Orson Scott Card, for example, writes both long serieses as well as short stories. I loved his Enderverse books as much as I loved Wyrms. It’s a good balance. I believe an author who writes both stand alones as well as long epics will be more successful at gaining a large fanbase. If the reader is hooked by the author’s stand alones, they might consider reading the longer books, and vise versa.
I think I’ve been spoiled by WoT. I like my books to have at least two PoVs, and enough background history to make them feel real. As much as Sword of Truth felt like a retelling of Rand’s story, I enjoyed the multitude of plauts and characters in those books.
I’m looking forward to seeing what you’ll bring us with The Gathering Storm. I downloaded the elictronic version of Warbreaker, and I’m very excited about it! When I read the summery, I was hooked instantly. You can bet I’ll be buying the audio when it comes out! Keep doing what you’re doing Brandon, it works for you.
June 12th, 2009 on 9:26 pm
Hi Brandon,
I have no problem with too long, I’m a huge fan of epic fantasy. Tolkien, Asimov’s entire Robot series (inc the Foundation trilogies), and of course WOT. What is very hard is waiting a LONG time for the next book. 6 months OK, a year?, years is very hard.
I know it takes longer to write multi-book epic than most standalone novels, a lot more work for the writer to ensure everything fits, and the wait is usually worth it, but as a reader waiting is hard to do.
11/3/09, TGS,
June 12th, 2009 on 11:39 pm
I like serials, but the decision to serialize or stand alone should serve the story.
June 13th, 2009 on 1:49 am
Hrrm, I prefer standalone novels, by far, because I tend to think they do a better job encapsulating the breadth of the emotions I want to find in a well told tale.
There are certainly multiple-book series I have read and enjoyed, but, the fantasy genre as an industry seems to have embraced tales which are spread across three books even while they are in essence one long story. Terry Brooks tends to write one continuous tale broken into the three parts. I like being able to read the parts as they are released, but, in later years, often find myself wishing I could just pick up one book.
Sometimes I’m faintly irritated that authors play to the trilogy format. I’m even MORE irritated when an author releases book after book with no seeming direction of where they are going.
June 13th, 2009 on 10:18 am
Has anyone read Jack London’s “To Build a Fire”? Or Kate Chopin’s “Desiree’s Baby?” Certainly not fantasy novels - they’re short stories that simply cannot be forgotten because of the character development, excellent writing, and emotional investment in the stories. Good writing and emotional impact don’t have to be lengthy. We’re talking about Brandon’s adult novels but I love his Alcatraz books! Each could be a stand-alone but there are recurring characters you come to care about and enjoy revisiting. Why don’t more authors of adult fantasy novels do more recurring characters in stand-alone stories? It’s kind of like visiting old friends from time to time and enjoying the visit without worrying about “when/how is it going to end?”
June 13th, 2009 on 11:53 am
Well, like you said, the length HAS to be set by the story. A reader can tell when the story is being rushed or stretched out. However, a long story that isn’t being overly stretched out is going to sell more. The readers are longing for that end and will buy whatever comes next because they have invested so much into it. So, yes, there are going to be those, “When is this going to end,” statements because reading something that long is exhuasting and builds a huge amount of anticipation, but ultimately I don’t think these complaints are from people hating the length (though there are times when you both love/ hate a series for what the length is doing to you) rather, they are just longing to know what is going to happen.
P.S. I have bought Warbreaker and tried to get a signed/ numbered copy, but I waited too long (had to get the money) before calling in the order to your guy in Utah.
June 13th, 2009 on 11:57 am
Oh, and I read Warbreaker online but had to have a hard copy. It is an amazing story and I think that you will sell plenty. One, because people that read it online will want it in a hard copy and two, because your site isn’t that popular and many people that will find it and buy it won’t even know that they can read it for free on your site.
June 13th, 2009 on 12:54 pm
I agree that the story must match the length. When something is inflated artificially beyond reason or shortened to the point of obscurity, then that hinders me in buying another book by the same author. However, generally I stick to “my” authors.
I absolutely LOVE the Wheel of Time! It´s long, but it never annoyed me with that. Still, at the tenth reread some chapters started to grow boring…
I loved Robin Hobbs Assassins series, and the two following trilogies as well. Still, soldier´s son so much pissed me off (still read it completely, though!), that I will not buy Hobbs books simply because of the name on the cover!
In a greater pause I looked for new things to read, and stumbled upon the Song of Ice and Fire. Grand, if not always the style I prefer (so much killing, rape, and a heavy waste of main characters…), but man, if George Martin could finish that series I really would appreciate it!
As WoT-Fan I had to give your work a try, started with Elantris. It hooked me. I read the whole thing in about 6-8 hours. It was great. And really stupid. It was Saturday evening. Fat chance of getting Mistborn right now. Still, started it (once I had it), loved it, currently reread it. I plan to get Warbreaker as soon as possible, but hey, this is Germany…
So, concluding my rant, I want to state that the standalones are great - if they are done right. Elantris was done right. I expect Warbreaker to be more than right.
But for me the standalones are the simple way to get to know an authors style. If I like the story, then I tend to buy the big things. More books means more to read, and in my opinion, there are not many things better than that!
It is true that most of us readers tend to be annoyed when the waiting for new installments gets too long. However, this is also some kind of appreciative gesture for the author. He does his job so well that the people literally crave for more!
June 13th, 2009 on 1:50 pm
As you say, it really depends on the story, although I tend to think the trilogy format is optimal, long enough for a big story with lots of details, but short enough to finish reading in a relatively short amount of time (and for the author to finish in their life). I don’t read many stand alone fantasy novels (although Warbreaker and Elantris are on my summer reading list), I do tend to like a big world with lots of details and a story that has a big enough scope to take more than a volume to tell. I think, however, that the complaints about series getting too long tend to be not so much motivated by stories taking too long to tell as authors taking too long to tell them. The books that really get on my nerves are the ones where the author goes off on a completely unexpected tangent when I’m waiting intensely to find out the what happens with the main story, and I have all these unanswered questions that remain unanswered for book after book. The specific volumes I can think of are GRRM’s AFFC, where half the characters got left out (although it was still a good book), Crossroads of Twilight, where very little really happens at all until the very end, and that Terry Goodkind book that just follows two characters completely new characters without really advancing the main plot (I stopped reading that series after that one.)
June 13th, 2009 on 3:11 pm
That’s Pillars of Creation. I started reading it then I just got some chapter summaries and skipped to the next book. The last three (the confessor trilogy) in Sword of Truth are amazing though, you need to find a way to get to those.
June 13th, 2009 on 3:18 pm
Like a lot of other people I like both BUT I tend more to series because when I get a relationship with a character I want to read more about him. Anyway the most important thing is the story. The MISTBORN series was a great read. I bought ELANTRIS recently. And I will buy WARBREAKER when mmbp will be released. That means you are an author with the talent to do both stand-alone and series. As long as you tell great stories people will be and read your books and it doesn’t matter whether it’s a series or a stand-alone.
June 14th, 2009 on 6:27 pm
I love both kinds.
I started out with Tolkien, so was never afraid of the long epic, though LotR seems short now after WoT!
One of my other favorites in the beginning was Barbara Hambly. I love all her books, and the stories live in my mind, but honestly, now when I go back to them, they just seem to be over too quickly. Now I’m hooked on the long narrative!
While not sci-fi or fantasy, another author skilled in multiple books of great length is Colleen McCullogh, whose Master of Rome historical fiction gets you every bit as invested in the characters as the Wheel of Time.
I now wish for a sci-fi series like the WoT. When you think of it, though, what are these great tv series and movies like Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Buffy and Angel and many more long-running stories but a visual version of the long narrative? Even comic books, if you choose to look at them that way. A story is a story, no matter how it is written or filmed.
I suppose my only answer is: make it as long as it needs to be to tell the story properly. A big idea and big world-view will need more than 150,000 words.
Thank the Light that publishers are now more open to the multi-volume long narrative (even if they are dragged to it kicking and screaming about shelf space!)
June 14th, 2009 on 6:27 pm
I love both kinds.
I started out with Tolkien, so was never afraid of the long epic, though LotR seems short now after WoT!
One of my other favorites in the beginning was Barbara Hambly. I love all her books, and the stories live in my mind, but honestly, now when I go back to them, they just seem to be over too quickly. Now I’m hooked on the long narrative!
While not sci-fi or fantasy, another author skilled in multiple books of great length is Colleen McCullogh, whose Master of Rome historical fiction gets you every bit as invested in the characters as the Wheel of Time.
I now wish for a sci-fi series like the WoT. When you think of it, though, what are these great tv series and movies like Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Buffy and Angel and many more long-running stories but a visual version of the long narrative? Even comic books, if you choose to look at them that way. A story is a story, no matter how it is written or filmed.
I suppose my only answer is: make it as long as it needs to be to tell the story properly. A big idea and big world-view will need more than 150,000 words.
Thank the Light that publishers are now more open to the multi-volume long narrative (even if they are dragged to it kicking and screaming about shelf space!)
June 14th, 2009 on 8:41 pm
Good question. I loved Warbreaker. It’s honestly one of the best books I’ve ever read. I liked it more than WoT and Mistborn. It was a piece of art, truly. I’m not just singing your praises; I have a point, which is that while I loved Warbreaker more than series-style books like Mistborn, there’s something about Mistborn that makes me want to keep reading. I can’t find Mistborn 3 in my local Barnes and Noble, but I’m fairly certain that once I do find it, I’ll still be willing to read more of that world. I think that’s the important or attractive feature of a series: world-building, as you mentioned. With Warbreaker I didn’t feel jipped and the world was complex, but it was limited in scope. Mistborn had a more complex magic system, more viewpoints, more cities, basically just MORE. So, I like both, and you should just keep writing stories as long as you think they need to be. You’ve done well with that so far!
June 15th, 2009 on 10:00 am
I love series. If I’ve fallen in love with a character or set of characters I don’t want their story to end too quickly. The only problem I have with fantasy series is how long it sometimes is between books. I’ve been waiting a long time for the next installment in George RR Martin’s series. I’ve read many good stand alone fantasy books but they always end too soon for me.
June 15th, 2009 on 1:32 pm
My vote is generally for the series, as long as it remains interesting. I start getting turned off from a series when it starts losing focus or beccomes seemingly unmanageable for the author. That’s why I stopped reading the WofT series. In the later books, I felt like each of the many storylines were only progressing a tiny bit forward, and suddenly I was at the end of the book. Another example is Katherine Kerr. I thought the books were good in the beginning, but as the stories progressed and suddenly, most of the main characters were dead, I felt the story should have ended. If you want to continue in the same world, fine, but do so as a new trilogy, not trying to continue to build off of the same series. A good example of that is Mercedes Lackey, who writes mainly in trilogies, in different time periods in the same world, and has started adding stand alones to flesh out some of the time periods that hadn’t been previously covered.
I agree with Sam, in that Pillars of Creation from Goodkind really seemed to kill the flow of the series (he should have just put that and Naked Empire in one larger volume for a complete story). That was another example where I thought, “okay, if you’ve run out of ideas for the main characters, it’s time to end the series.” But, like Joshua said, he redeemed himself (in my opinion) with Naked Empire, and later, the Confessor trilogy.
My favorite authors for their series work are King’s Dark Tower series, Marillier’s Seven Waters trilogy, and Carey’s Kushiel series. I have to confess, though, I do probably own all of the Valdemar books by Mercedes Lackey (I just can’t let go of that old high school following I had for them).
June 15th, 2009 on 4:32 pm
Unoriginal, I know, but I like both. Length doesn’t really matter so long as I enjoy reading the story. I think most fantasy readers think this way because we’re so used to dedicating ourselves to the long epic series that are so common in the genre. Sometimes it’s hard to believe a single book can possibly be as rich and fulfilling a read as a long serial. Don’t worry, only sometimes, and usually because I’m only reading the book for school.
I love Warbreaker. It was the first Sanderson book I ever read (yes, because it was free, but I bought a hard copy too!). I love Mistborn, and that’s a little longer. And I really look forward to The Way of Kings and the rest of the Stormlight Archive (assuming that remains the name). It’s silly how excited I am for that. I think it’s because I’ve already seen you can do something amazing in a shorter format, but I’ve been reading long fantasy series since elementary school, so they’ll always have a special place in my heart.
Yeah, the wait can suck in a longer series–EotW came out the year after I was born and WoT still isn’t finished. But I’m used to it, and it’s not like there’s a shortage of other fantasy books for me to read and reread while I wait. Plus, based on your work so far, I doubt we’ll be waiting four years between each book.
June 16th, 2009 on 1:31 pm
I’m addicted to Analog! So I vote for neither. I like short stories.
June 16th, 2009 on 3:55 pm
i have to say i like both standalone and series books. i’ve read both kinds since i was little. i have a special place in my heart for a good series, because i get invested in great characters/worlds and want to know more, more, more (on the other side of the coin, i read extremely quickly so i tend to have to wait longer than others for the next book in the series)!
that being said, i have come to the conclusion that a series can also be a bad thing if the author takes so long between books that they lose their way or lose interest in the story or the buying public loses interest in the story. i have no problem waiting if the book i’m waiting for is going to be good. i have a problem if i wait, pay my hard earned money and discover that the author has lost their mind/is slowly starting to lose their mind (i could name names but i’m sure you guys can come up w/ your own guesses).
as for “the wheel of time” series, i started that series about 10 yrs ago… read about 5 of the books and then just lost interest. from what i remember, they went so uber-slowly that they started to annoy me. i felt like the author was going off on tangents that did not need to be addressed.